Upsidedown Car. Now What?

[Richard Broadhead]

..... in the particular incident being discussed (Group 3 national race Sunday at the NWR Memorial Day double), it should not have been even a difficult call, in my opinion as a racer on the track at the time.....

Mark,

Although I am the one who 1st injected the SCCA T-3A incident into the discussion, my intention was not to make it a 'case study' as I was NOT on the scene of that incident (but I have been plenty of others). The point I was making was 2 fold. First, it is not wise to attempt to extract yourself from the car in such situations unless it is ABSOLUTELY necessary. Second, when remaining drivers see ANY yellow flag there should realize (wet or dry) the level of risk to themselves and others has increased dramatically.

As you have metinoned several times, was the flagging done properly? In my opinion, no. I agree with you on that point. SCCA flags are done differently then ICSCC and in many ways, ICSCC is better.

Did the turn workers and E-crew handle the situation properly? Like I said, I was NOT on scene but I'm guessing several things could have been done 'better' which would have prevented the 2nd impact. Due to the low turn out of workers, I'm not even sure experienced personel where at T-3A that day.

Things that ICSCC does better for example is the "automatic" back up of a waving yellow. And second, if an E-crew is in your sector the White Fla is WAVING and backed up by a standing white at the prior station. Some in the SCCA have attempted to follow ICSCC lead in terms of the white flage but no success yet.

Examples like this and, Stewards trying to second guess flag calls from the Tower rather then on the scene are exaclty why NWR SCCA lost its very good and long time Chief of Flags earlier this year.

 

[Ken Killam]

Once upon a time...

SCCA's white flag rule was virtually the same as ICSCC. Waving for Official vehicles in their sector with a standing white displayed at the previous station. Today they expect a standing, and a standing. I won't go into the communication issues with the earlier station knowing when to cancel. "slow moving vehicle" regardless of type. When they stop, they are flagged as a part of the incident. Usually a waving yellow if on track, or standing yellow if off track. Not to mention any Dbl yellow FCY with, or without the Pace Car... come to think of it, maybe there just wasn't enough people to manipulate all of those flags at the same time.

But I digress...

It was an SCCA licensed DRIVER someplace back east... New England, I think, who lost a position in some race, and must have created a big, snivelly-boy, ruckus with the Stewardship there, and the story was something like, 'that he saw a waving yellow flag, and backed off for an incident losing a position'. I don't know if it was the last lap of the last race of the last event of the season, and he lost the championship... but they took the waving white flag out of the GCR right after that. I will not devulge my sources on this, so you'll have to trust me...FWIW.

How many think that drivers that have decided that they have no voice to make changes in the GCR are those that must not have read it very well. I haven't read it cover to cover, but I'm sure that there must be, like most all other sanctioning rule sets, the proverbial "squeakiest wheel gets the lube job." or something to that affect.

Rally 'round the fire, boys!

 

[Richard Broadhead]

.....How many think that drivers that have decided that they have no voice to make changes in the GCR are those that must not have read it very well.....

Actually, Ken, that's another thing Conference does BETTER then the SCCA.

In Conference, only drivers in the class can submit rules change requests and they are then voted on by 'racing members' of the class. And then, only between seasions. GOOD DEAL.

In SCCA, ANYBODY including engine builders, drivers, crew, pouty little boys who are losing races because they can't drive can submit a rules change proposal ANY TIME of the year and if 'lucky' can have the new 'rule' in effect 45 to 60 days later. No 'votes' just a review in Topeka.... VERY BAD!

 

[Ken Killam]

Yes, every MEMBER has the ability to affect change in SCCA. That's part of being a dues paying member in good standing.

Why is that a bad thing?

Certainly it's no worse than the 'mis/mal/un-informed', or 'novice' voter just going along with the gang. And not really any different than the "I got dinged by the way a previously ignored rule was actually written, so NOW it must be changed."

But you are correct, Rich, the agony of the process only occurs once a year. That is a relief.

Could you imagine ICSCC trying to solve everybody's problem within a month-to-month process? Right now it's only possible to gossip, and conject from one event to the next. By the end of the year only the most contentious of issues will survive to be approached and considered for application to change.

Apples, and apples.

 

[Richard Broadhead]

Yes, every MEMBER has the ability to affect change in SCCA. That's part of being a dues paying member in good standing.

Why is that a bad thing?.......

Because lots of people spend LOTS of money in the 'off season' preparing their cars for the coming season according to the "rules" in effect when the season begins. Then, a month later some competitor who lost 2 races earlier in the year decides he could go faster with a new cam or larger carburator.. so he requests a 'rules change'. If approved, now he's got the hot toy and ALL the others (who may not be cash fat) have to fall behind or find more $$$$$.

Racing is expensive enough but a constantly changing throughout the year set of rules just adds to that expense. If you think I'm wrong, look at some of the Forums dedicated to production based and GT cars. There's constant battles over the constantly changing class rules. We have NONE of that in Conference.

IF it's safety related that's a whole different issue. I'm talking 'class' rules.