Fading Gray Matter

Richard Broadhead

Richard Broadhead

Flag & Com
Here I sit drinking coffee and it suddenly 'hits me' what's going on today... Dang!

I wanted to be at some of those meetings.. :mad:

Should-a put a sticky note on the computer screen.. :rolleyes:
 
There was a pretty good turn out for the ROD meeting. We certainly could have used more qualified opinions. Consider the RATS/ROD meeting on March 6, 2010.

The definition of the Dbl Yellow (Full Course) is in revision to eliminate the (bizarre) interpretation which has let to the releasing a the Pace (Safety) Car into race traffic before, or at the same time that any of the drivers have been made aware of the FCY.

Through the course of discussion, we got to use the word "imminent" in a sentence. It might be Canadian for "will be", but there's no 'u' in it. I like the synonym "looming" too. "The Pace Car is looming." You could put a 'u' in that. :rolleyes:

But we are working very hard to avoid situations like the pic below.

But more importantly, who picked the short straw, and wound up being the ICSCC President.
 
Wow sorry I missed the Double Yellow discussion. Could have suggested....

DOUBLE YELLOW, the meaning:

The Pace Car is forthcoming.

The Pace Car is impending.

The Pace Car is looming.

The Pace Car is likely.

The Pace Car is menacing.

The Pace Car is inescapable.

The Pace Car is OUT.... Hey slow down!
 
I think they covered looming and impending but they missed menacing! They ended up inserting 'imminent' which is very catchy!
 
Yes, indeed. So much more than "The Pace Car will be deployed during a race." If we keep the 'imminent' wording, it should forever after be considered the Regulation of Her Eminence Ann Peters. Also, to her credit, she did shut down the border skirmish that began brewing at the time.

I am looking forward to getting a lot of mileage out of this next season.

So here's something, when you think about it, as the Regulation is currently written doesn't it allow for that same bizarre interpretation through an event's element of control, to call out an FCDbl Yellow WITHOUT the Pace Car during a practice, or qualifying session? Something that we know from experience, does nothing to control the field. So really, the "during a race" part seems superficial, and unnecessary.

I know. That's just crazy talk. Besides, the Pace Car may not even be at the track until race day, right? But it's not written in stone yet, so we (ROD) will have until the Spring EBoD meeting to hack it out.

Another shining example of how it's important to keep things simple. It's a gray matter thing.

Bonnie, I don't know who the new President is. I did not attend the Awards dinner/ceremony. But that doesn't mean that I won't tease you anyway. :p
 
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Okay mighty attendees at the meeting. I have a 2 part question:

1.
Was the rewording an attempt to actually "control" HOW AND WHEN the Pace Car enters the track?

OR

2.
Did somebody really believe that by altering the words, the drivers reaction to a Double Yellow would change?

The BEST solution to 2 above is to make sure Nicholas Belling is race leader whenever the Double Yellow is thrown! He will have the pack down to Pace Car speed a 1/2 lap BEFORE he sees the Pace Car :cool:
 
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1. Yes-Well... sort of. Read the rule, and think about how the word "with" might be used to release the Pace Car, and put out the flags at the exact same time. Thus, the leader (or whomever) would not be made aware of the FCY, and that the Pace Car was being deployed until it was sent out in front of them. The grammar of the regulation inadvertently created a procedural inconsistency of operations in Base Comm, due to individual interpretation.

2. No-That song remains the same.

And sometimes you have to fight bad orders.
 
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Ken Killam said:
1. Yes-The word "with" was being used to release the Pace Car and put out the flags at the exact same time."
Click to expand...


Okay, so, WHO will control the 'release' of the Pace Car on to the track?

1.
Should not this have been a funcion of somebody already?

2.
What is the 'specified' time delay between Race Controls 'call' for a Double Yellow and the actual release of the Pace Car?

I hope it isn't too long as drivers do generally wind it down a notch once they actually see the Pace Car/Double Yellow even if they have to go around to catch up with the pack. After all, the Double Y isn't thrown lightly. There's something serious going on and the cars need to be 'under control' as quickly as possible.
 
You are missing the point Rich. I don't know who is sitting in the room at SCCBC events, but the ICSCC clubs who's operation I am very familiar with tasks the talking heads in Base Comm with the logistics/execution of the procedure.

Only as an example, SCCA would have an Operating Steward going through these steps. The ICSCC clubs may not afford that kind of 'hands on' control in Base Comm. That is a unique, but distinct difference between the "Control" of an event (Race Chair & Steward), and "Base Communications" (Marshals with headphones) of an event.

But that difference is irrelevant.

The point is... That each turn gets their flags out to make the whole field aware BEFORE the Pace Car is launched.

Thinking about what needs to occur...

Stand up the Pace Car (confirming communication, and readiness).

Get the FCY out and displayed (Making the field aware that the course is under caution).

Spot the leader (calling them around to coordinate the release of the Pace Car).

These three steps in the procedure need to be done as quickly, and efficiently as possible, and may be executed in any order. But to send the Pace Car out onto the track until you have good communication with its crew, and the flags are out is just... just... Aahrg!!

The drivers' interpretation of what the flags mean is not changed. At all. No further education of the drivers needed.

It's up to us to make absolutely sure that they (the drivers) are informed that the whole course is under caution, and they will be coming up to the back of the line (watching for the waving white(s), or be the car behind the Pace Car.

So, without going through each, and every possible scenario (such as an occasion where it is necessary to release the Pace Car regardless of the leader's location), the bottom line is to get the flags out as soon as we can, and BEFORE the Pace Car is released.

We can't use the grammar of a regulation as an excuse to muddle a procedure that isn't grossly complex, and should already be pretty well established through these many years of operation.
 
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So, without going through each and every possible scenario, the bottom line is to get the flags out as soon as we can, and BEFORE the Pace Car is released.
Click to expand...
Speaking as a driver... oh, yes please.
 
My feeling on that conversation was it was something that should have been handled operationally at the RATS meeting. I don't think the wording of the yellow flag rule has been the reason that the yellow flags were being called for as the pace car was being dispatched.
 
Would you not advise the club that you represent to ICSCC ROD as to the potential safety hazard that you, or your peers have realized, Dave? It shouldn't even matter if you are an ROD rep, or not. Really... What should Johnny Canuck do?

The regulation created the situation. The regulation needs to be fixed (eliminate the cause). Regulations that have been mis-interpreted due to grammatical ambiguity is only one element that we (ROD) are supposed to identify and repair. Unfortunately, there is no lack of that kind of thing in any set of regulations that I've read. So our mission is important, and somewhat unique I think, to ICSCC.

I certainly don't see any of that as a focal point of the RATS meeting by any stretch. Nor the ROD mtg at the RATS mtg. ROD is tasked with maintaining a consistency of operations for each member club to member club, track to track, event to event.

This fact puts this responsibility of policing squarely upon the shoulders of the ROD representatives. The Fall Meeting is the time to discuss the situations that we've discovered/realized, create positive solutions/options/alternatives, then report them to the EBoD for addition to their agenda at the Spring mtg. At that time the regulations can be effectively repaired as deemed suitable by a vote of the EBoD. Only then will the ICSCC Comp Regs be corrected for the next season, and distributed at the RATS meeting...FIXED.

No wiggle room. Is that a problem?
 
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I don't think the rule has anything to do with this situation. There's a lot of literal interpretation if one thinks that ready set fcy/pacecar is what "with" means. We as base communicators know how the order should go. Sometimes it just gets fubijared. More so at ICSCC events, not SCCA events not because there's a stewards convention "controlling" the operations. But, because of the sheer # of cars in an ICSCC race.

Safety Stand-Up
Pace Car Stand-Up
FCDYF
Where's the leader
If we've done it right, about T1 we hear Pace Car has the leader.
 
I believe, that a major part of the ROD's responsibilities and obligations are first and foremost SAFETY and TRAINING.

If there is some basic simple language or even one word, in a rule, that leaves the door open to interpretation, through which then, can infringe or impact on safety, then it is our job to shut that door. Slowly but surely we are attempting to do this.

The people we have in our base comms are all experienced, but we have to think about new people coming in. If the rules can be worded so they are subtle guidelines as well, you have a win win situation.

Each and every track/club has lightly different operating procedures, but to my way of thinking, the safety of all ICSCC participants can be covered with careful wording of the rules to narrow the interpretation factor. This will help with the track to track consistency that we have also been working towards.

We've already had one driver chime in and wants what we are attempting to do.
Give the drivers a head's up. (and yes, the fubars are going to happen occasionally no matter how hard we try.)

We shall see what happens at the Spring meeting.
 
The first time that I noticed this rule's interpretation alter the safety of the track operations was as Adam Jacobson and I were flagging at T1 at PR.

I was told after the fact (end-of-day) that the rule said that the flags should be displayed at the same time that the pace car is released. That's what I was told by those in "Control" at the time.

I thought that it was a fluke too. And thought that perhaps it wouldn't become an issue. That assumption was incorrect as has been demonstrated since. Another time at PR, and during a Novice session where the License Director issued the commands. Where do you suppose the License Director got that idea? Right out of the book.

So stop it.

It has everything to do with the way that the rule was written, and then grammatical (mis)-interpreted. Why would we even consider leaving this error in the regulation, and available to unnecessary interpretation. RATS is Administration, this issue lends to our safe operations. Not the same.

This thread about "Fading Gray Matter" seems to be the perfect opportunity to discuss this aspect of our great book of ICSCC Regulations, and how we use it.

Thank, Richard.
 
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I attended the ROD meeting last Saturday and was involved in this discussion. I agreed with the changes to the rule and applaud the ROD members for 'shutting the door' and making the safety rules both easier and more efficient. From a drivers standpoint most of us understand how yellows and pace cars work, but every little bit helps so we're all on the same page.
So you have vote/support on this.
 
Just to be clear, the License Director requests certain flag exercises from race control. How they are implemented is completely out of my hands.

I do agree that safety is the principle concern, and if there are clarifications needed then I fully support that.
 
Okay here's my opinion:

1.
Somebody somewhere is in 'control' of calling for a full course double yellow.

2.
When that person speaks the words, the command is given over the Race Net to all stations to go double yellow.

3.
Somebody in the vacinity of the Pace Car (my option would be Reentry) should 'hold' the Pace Car UNTIL he sees that at least the flag station BEFORE pit out has the double yellow displayed.

At least at Portland and Pacific, that would be the Starter Stand which is clearly visible from the Reentry station.
 
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